Bracket likes and dislikes
May
2007
Here’s the official NCAA release. Now is your chance to sound off.
The NCAA Division III Baseball Committee has announced the 53 teams that will compete in the 2007 NCAA Division III Baseball Championship.
Six teams will compete at three first-round sites; seven teams will compete at five first-round sites. All first rounds will use a double-elimination format. Thirty-three conference champions qualified automatically.
Winners of the eight first-round tournaments will qualify for the double-elimination championship at Fox Cities Stadium in Appleton, Wisconsin, May 25-29.
DATES/SITES/SEEDINGS:
May 16-20
Hosted by Eastern College Athletic Conference, Harwich, Massachusetts
1. Wheaton (Massachusetts) (31-11)
2. Eastern Connecticut State (34-10)
3. Williams (25-8)
4. Curry (27-7)
5. Keene State (29-13)
6. Western New England (27-10)
7. St. Joseph’s (Maine) (30-10)
Hosted by Ferrum College, Ferrum, Virginia
1. Emory (35-7)
2. Salisbury (32-8)
3. York (Pennsylvania) (29-12)
4. Methodist (29-13)
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) (21-21)
6. Ferrum (22-16)
7. Villa Julie (24-20)
Hosted by College of Wooster, Wooster, Ohio
1. Wooster (40-5)
2. Otterbein (31-11)
3. Hope (28-11)
4. Marietta (28-14)
5. Ohio Wesleyan (24-13)
6. Mount St. Joseph (33-9)
Hosted by Alvernia College, Boyertown, Pennsylvania
1. Kean (35-8)
2. The College of New Jersey (32-9)
3. Johns Hopkins (35-9)
4. Gwynedd-Mercy (30-10)
5. Frostburg State (31-13)
6. Elizabethtown (22-16)
7. Wilkes (24-10)
Hosted by Ithaca College, Auburn, New York
1. Cortland State (35-4)
2. Ithaca (24-13)
3. St. John Fisher (26-11)
4. Manhattanville (23-17)
5. Trinity (Connecticut) (28-6)
6. Skidmore (20-18)
7. Westfield State (20-15)
Hosted by Illinois Wesleyan University, Bloomington, Illinois
1. Luther (29-9)
2. Illinois Wesleyan (32-11)
3. Carthage (32-11)
4. Washington U. in St. Louis (30-9)
5. Webster (30-12)
6. Augustana (Illinois) (32-12)
Hosted by Chapman University, Orange, California
1. Chapman (35-5)
2. Pacific Lutheran (32-7)
3. Texas Lutheran (35-8)
4. Texas-Dallas (32-11)
5. George Fox (30-9)
6. Pomona-Pitzer (29-11)
7. Austin (22-23)
Hosted by University of Wisconsin, Stevens Point
1. Wisconsin-Stevens Point (28-14)
2. St. Thomas (Minnesota) (32-10)
3. Ripon (21-13)
4. St. Olaf (31-8)
5. Wisconsin-Oshkosh (32-10)
6. St. Scholastica (36-6)
May 14th, 2007 at 3:47 am
trinity must have a member of committe on their side, wash and jeff should be in, but favorites it seems
May 14th, 2007 at 3:54 am
my feelings are hurt. millsaps should have been in. my heart is just broken for those boys - they worked so hard and couldn’t get any of the breaks at all. how sad for the ncaa….
May 14th, 2007 at 6:19 am
Trinity being in is an insult to college baseball…it shows how easy it is to rig a system….just schedule a bunch of patsy teams and don’t worry about getting your butt kicked when you play somebody good…
May 14th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Perhaps next year when QOWI is scrapped and opponents’ opponents’ record is used, that will change how things operate in New England. For now there are so many conferences that one could indeed cherry-pick programs to play and create a decent QOWI without beating anyone good.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:04 am
This tournament is very disappointing at least for the New York region in Auburn. St. John Fisher must have some major pull after playing in a week conference. There is no way they are a #3 seed or are #3 in the New York region. They play in a week conference and got swept by Brockport, lost to Oneonta, and lost to Cortland all from the SUNYAC which is a tough conference. I live in the Rochester area and have seen them play. My prediction is two and done. This should be a cake walk for Cortland.
I’m sure the same type of deal has happened in other regions all over the country. As a fan of baseball there is nothing you can do when it seems politics comes into play. Good luck to all teams.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Trinity could actually do some damage. They are a very good team. Plus, if they can get by Manhattanville, they could use Kiely vs. Cortland, and Kiely is very, very good.
Still, their being there is a horrible, cruel joke on many teams that have far better resumes and coaches with farmore integrity than Decker. How he can keep a straight face while scheduling doubleheaders with Plymouth St, Hamilton, Worcester St., and Fredonia St. in March is beyond me.
I wish Casey at Tufts could lose his integrity that way…maybe if he stopped playing Methodist, NC Wesleyan, VA Wesleyan, Greensboro, and Lynchburg and subbed in doubleheaders with Elms, Framingham St., Western Conn, and Vassar, I’d still be watching my team play….
May 14th, 2007 at 9:36 am
General comments:
Baseball runs a different travel schedule than men’s or women’s basketball.
#1 Seed Chapman hosts the West and five teams fly to Southern California. Congratulations to the Panthers.
Teams for whom the AQ cannot come too soon to their conference:
W&J–The Presidents’ AC rushed thru Thomas More’s membership in spring/summer of 2005, wreaking havoc with football schedules in the process. Being regionally ranked going into their tourney and then winning the PresAC tourney couldn’t keep W&J in the field.
Rockford–The reports on the Message Board are that the Lake Michigan Conference Charter/By-laws had wording that needed to be scrapped rather than re-written, so the Northern Athletics Conference started with a clean sheet of paper. Rockford would not be a discredit to the field, and the Pool A bids in 2008-09 seasons cannot come too soon for the teams in the NAthCon.
The primary criteria supposedly replace the QOWI with the opponents’ opponents’ record in 2007-08. This is not that different in concept. It seems that we are replacing 16 strata of differentiation with 1001, just in smaller increments in which a team dropping from in-region 17-17 (.500 or the 12/13 4/5 QOWI strata) to 17-18 (.486 or the 10/11 2/3 QOWI strata) does not impact its foes so drastically.
I still think that we will see the New England Region showing opponents’ opponents’ records that demonstrate the success of cherry picking the opponents. In that part of the country, it is just too easy to find very mediocre teams whose own records have been boosted by victories over even less stellar opponents.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:41 am
i just feel that if you dont have a Name and a reputation your not gonna get in, ramapo if their name was ROWAN would have been a lock, and another disgrace is that teams played more than 40 games without or before playing their conference tournament, rhodes, frostburg to name a few
May 14th, 2007 at 9:42 am
had nothing to do with numbers at the end all about favortism
May 14th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Bostonian, the games against teams in North Carolina and Virginia are not in-region! (This goes back to the Handbook.) They did not knock Tufts out of the tourney! Respectfully, please look at the games that Tufts should have not lost this year, and find your NCAA bid there.
This is one reason that I like having the in-region focus. You can play some very tough out of region “D3″ teams to get your team ready, and it does not hurt you when the primary cirtieria are considered.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:00 am
I understand that, Ralph. I am saying that if Tufts replaced those games, which are invaluable in how they prepare a team for the rest of it’s season, by the way, with in region patsies like Hamilton, Plymouth St. and Worcester St., it would drastically improve the QOWI. Tufts finished with a QOWI around 8.9. Put 6 more wins with those teams (all 11 point wins) and their QOWI goes up to 9.3. So, there is your difference between Tufts and Trinity. Doubleheaders with awful teams like Hamilton, Plymouth St. and Worcester St.
Regardless, I am not saying Tufts deserved a bid. They did not based on their resume and how the NCAA works. However, Trinity deserved a bid far less than Tufts. They played the majority of their games versus teams under .500. They do not have 1 win against a tourney team, and their record vs. ranked teams is 2-5! How on Earth they are in is beyond me.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:11 am
What a screw job. How does the #16 team in the ABCA rankings, Millsaps, not get in? I don’t care what kind of criteria you use. I guess they feel that letting the SCAC conference tournament winner is sufficient. I haven’t even mentioned Rhodes who is currently ranked #30. They won 36 games and had a 5-2 record against nationally ranked teams. I suppose the SCAC should just schedule all their games against DI teams to prepare for the toughest competition, go 0-30 and then put all their eggs in 1 basket and just focus on getting the automatic bid by winning the conference tournament. Evidently, that’s the only way to get past the slant against the South.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:18 am
the way the ncaa d-3 playoffs is selected is a joke. How can an overrated team like methodist get in and Millsaps nor Rhodes make it, and not only get in but get a higher seed than the team that beat them in the conferance tourney. Is it a coincidence there coach is on the selection board. How can a team like Salisbury be considered a south region team when they wont travel south to play very many teams that are in the south. They get to count all these MD and PA schools that stink as region games while teams in the south dont. Soem of these regions are very weak and if they had to play day in and day out in the south not very many would make the post season. I will put NC Weslleyan or Millsaps or Rhodes up against 90% of the teams from New
May 14th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Please someone tell me why W&J didnt get in and Marietta did….W&J had a way better record…won their conference tourney…while Marietta players were sent home cause their coach told them they had no chance while we thought we were in for sure…thats just ridiculous
May 14th, 2007 at 10:41 am
marietta has a reputation fo going to world series
May 14th, 2007 at 10:57 am
“and not only get in but get a higher seed than the team that beat them in the conferance tourney.”
Fla — because the season is 40 games long, not one or two.
May 14th, 2007 at 11:42 am
My guess is that if W&J took care of business and beat Marietta at HOME 2 weeks ao, then they’d be in and Marietta would be out.
Marietta was 24-10 vs regional opponents. Just because they lost their last three games, it doens’t ake away from the fact that they won the other 24 regional contests.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Dont buy that! Marietta knocked out of their conference in two games!! Lost to Theil! This is part of the “Marietta ” mystique. Not syaing marietta isnt good, jsut that a team that wins against ranked teams in florida, wins conference three years in a row, wins ecac last year is being overlooked only because of the lock by ohio teams on the mideast. Also add that W+J was ranked consistently int the top 30 every abca and regionally every ncaa poll. W+J never was given its share of recognition, did you ever see an article even on this site of what their accomplishments were. Look at the ncaa ranking of batting average, era, on base percentage almost any category they are highly ranked. The only reason they didnt get in wast — they arent Marietta. If they didnt get in becasue of 1 game loss to marietta, how did marietta get in when losing to teams W+J consistently beat! If is a digrace!
May 14th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Why should the two games and out team get in before a team that won its conference, beat nationally ranked teams in florida? W+j got excluded because of the Ohio conference being thought of as “wonderful” to the exclusiong of all others. Based on abca, ncaa regional rankings, ncaa team statistics W+j is the team that should be in. If losing to marietta caused the out, how could marietta get in by losing to thiel, whom w&j consistenly beats.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
It’s unfortunate that a dangerous, senior-led team like #16 Millsaps (35-11) was left out of the field of 53. They could have really caused some damage. Not only do they average the second most runs-per-game (10.6) in all of Division III, but they truly have the heart of a champion. The Majors were one out away from a World Series bid last year, and only needed to get in the field to make some noise. I disagree with a few selections, especially Trinity (Conn.) getting in. How does a team not make its conference tournament and then get an invite? There should be a lot of reevaluation there. But as always, there are going to be the teams on the outside looking in that should or could have got in. I’m looking forward to seeing how the tournament plays out.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Travesty in the midwest, 3 CCIW teams get in, none from the NAC, throw out the QOWI, give me a break Rockford beat Auggie hands down, maybe because their head coach is on the committee. If it would have been Aurora or Edgewood with the same record as Rockford and the same QOWI they would have got in. Should be a neutral party picking these, not head coaches or AD’s.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
But W&J was 27-10 in region and predicted to get a Pool B bid…and we couldnt even get a pool C
May 14th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I agree that W&J should’ve been in, without a doubt. I’m not as knowledgeable about the rest of the country as some other on this board, but it seems they all had W&J as a lock.
It’s unfair, but that’s what has happenned ever since 2000 when the NCAA started allowing Automatic Qualifiers into the tournament. Like I’ve said before, it would be much easier (and fair) to pick the best teams out there and let them battle it out in the regionals like the pre-2000 days, but that will never happen again.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
I would like to say first that I have followed this blog and it’s contributers since D3baseball’s inception. It’s been great to be able to follow D3 baseball on a national level this year. I’m posting to comment on some posts that I have read regarding some of this year’s picks, namely baseballcrazy. I feel your comments are commonly based on opinion and not fact. To say that it is a disgrace for teams like Frostburg State and Rhodes to get in with 41 games is simply not correct. For example, FSU has played 44 games total, including 5 playoffs games. This leaves them with 39 regular season contests. Also, they received an AQ from winnig the AMCC. I suspect your feelings stem from YOUR team not making the tournament, and have little to do with other teams and their accomplishments. In the future, I hope that you choose to look deeper into issues and do your homework, instead of badmouthing.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
I agree with RC17. As I said yesterday, 3 teams from 1 conference should not participate in a national tournament. Augustana had no business making it. Third in a conference doesn’t cut it. I dont’ care about their 32 wins . It’s politics 101. and what’s this ? Illinois Weselyn gets to host the regional! What happened to “neutral sites” for a national tournament. Luthur should not be a # 1 seed. Why don’t they play a 40 game schedule too. We won as many games as they did. I guess 30 is the magic #. Rockford would have defeated any of the 6 in the region, hands down. We won our last game ! Only 1 other team can say that from here on out.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Alot of teams will have won thier last game and not make it, just by random chance.
I was operating under the assumption that Rockfords only hope was a B seeding, but with Augustana getting a C slot - there is little to argue them gtting the slot over Rockford. Thier QOWI are nearly the same (9.305 for Rockford to 9.36 for Augie), Rockfords in Region Winning Percentage is vastly superior (.777 to .710). Augies record against ranked teams was 3-6, which could be looked as a negative since they didn’t do well or a positive that they played that many games, but as it turns out all of those are against Carthage and IWU, and they showed repeatedly they are not in those two teams class. Rockford was 2-2 against ranked opponents, including a win over Augustana.
I have no problem with Rockford not getting a bid with the exception of Augie getting a bid, there doesn’t seem to be much sense to it. But Rockfords real problem stems from their Conference not figuring out how to get an AQ, it had to be just a paper work issue, if they shuffled it a little differently there wouldn’t be a problem. The teams that comprise the NAC have historically been strong in baseball, last year two of the teams made the NCAA, it is a little hard to see how a team can win the regular and conference title and get nosed out by Augie who has repeatedly shown they can beat weak teams but not good teams.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Bostonian, you have made a very good argument for Tudts strategy to prepare the team for the NCAA’s not working and Trinity’s did.
Your coach might look at his schedule next season.
I count a New England Region record of 14-8. That is just not enough games for the primary criteria. I think that you need to play at least 30 in-region games. I think that 17-5 makes the tourney. That gives an in-region record of .773!
Your losses were Endicott (first game down south), Brandeis (ouch), Bowdoin, Trinity (1 of 3), ECSU (oh shucks! almost!), Babson (gotta knock of the competition) Amherst and Williams.
The Bentley game did not help either.
You have helped me understand the fine line and how fine that it is.
May 14th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Remember the criterion is not record, but results versus in-region ranked teams.
Augie played 9 games versus 4 games versus in-region ranked teams.
May 14th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Correct, but “results” does indicate winning or losing doesn’t it? I do understand it is an advantage to play ranked teams, but at some point your sucess against them has to come into play.
Augie played alot of them as they had 2 ranked teams in the CCIW to play, the only other team they played that was +667 was Rockford and they lost to them as well.
May 14th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Ralph,
Tufts’ in region was 17-9. 2 wins vs. Trinity, 3 vs. Bowdoin, 1 vs. Amherst, 3 vs. Bates, 3 vs. Colby, 1 vs. Albertus Magnus, 1 vs. Mass Maritime, 1 vs. Mass-Dartmouth, 1 vs. Williams, and 1 vs. Babson. Fairly close, but not close enough. 1 or 2 wins would have done the trick.
I agree that Casey does himself no favors in terms of scheduling for the NCAAs. Still, the fact that you can manipulate a schedule so that making the NCAAs is formulaic is pathetic. And Casey is never going to create a schedule just so he can get his team an at-large bid if they don’t get the automatic. He wants to play the best schedule he can create within the screwy guidelines of the NESCAC. Only allowing 23 games during the school season up North really handicaps teams in the league.
Like I said, Tufts didn’t deserve a bid, but Trinity deserved one even less. When you play 34 games, and 2/3 are against teams below .500, you do not deserve an at-large. Trinity baseball parents, fans, and players should be thrilled that God put a ceiling on mankind’s intelligence but he forgot to put a floor on mankind’s stupidity…
May 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Thanks for your comments goldengear. Rockford shouldnt be punished for only playing 4 in region ranked games when the CCIW has 3 teams. That’s punishing the entire NAC Conference We can’t control who they recruit.. I guess we’ll have to try to play Carthage next year as we have made it a habit to play Augustana & Illinois Weselyn every year too.
May 14th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Bostonian, thanks for catching the Albertus magnus, UMass-Dartmouth and Mass-Maritime oversights.
As I said, I thought that Trinity would be sitting on the table when the last bid was handed out. One more win, be it Trinity CT, ECSU or Williams, and the Jumbos are in the NCAA’s IMHO. 18-8 is a winning percentage of .778! One more win over the bid earners also strengthens your case because you have head-to-head.
As formulaic criteria, I strongly oppose any changes in the NCAA’s process that isn’t formulaic.
Yours may be the only post on this board that isn’t “wailing and gnashing” teeth about “Politics 101″ in the NCAA.
May 14th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Dave Smith: What I usually say is that the other teams shouldn’t be punished for your weak schedule. You can only play who you played … but same for Augustana and IWU. You keep hanging on one game out of a 40-game season. It takes more than that. This isn’t football.
Vietmeier: It may be easier to get a Pool B sometimes than a Pool C.
Loaded24: “Why should the two games and out team get in before a team that won its conference, beat nationally ranked teams in florida?”
Because the season is 40 games long. It’s not just your last two. The entire body of work is in play, including that pesky head-to-head loss to Marietta on May 2.
May 14th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
On The topic of W&J being left out. I am very dissappointed and feel for them and thier coach who has TOTALLY turned that program around. However, they had 4 opportunities to play against OAC teams (MT Union (2), Capital, and Marietta) and didn’t win one of them. They do not have a single victory against ANY team that the NCAA selected to the field. All of this is Moot if WOOSTER (#1 in country) would have won the NCAC tourney, keeping Ohio Wesleyan out, and allowing W&J into that regional.
May 14th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Ralph, the sad thing is that Tufts had a doubleheader with Albertus Magnus, but the 2nd game was never played because of scheduling conflicts. Give them that win and maybe they’d be in…it’s most frustrating because Tufts played their whole season without their #1 arm, their #1 closer, their cleanup hitter, and their best player missed the Eastern and Babson games….so forgive me for my bellyaching!!!
The problem with a formulaic approach is that it is easily manipulated, which is what Trinity has done. Sometimes, you have to use a little subjectivity. In this case, just doing a bit of research would have showed Trinity was veyr undeserving of a bid. The other issue to me is the cost. It is obvious that the NCAA did not want to fly a team into New York. There is simply no way that Trinity deserved it more than Millsaps, Rhodes, or others. Their QOWI was only 9.22, and they were 2-4 vs. regionally ranked teams. I know the NCAA insists that cost is not an issue, but I’m still calling them out for it.
May 14th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
bdubd37 — those are all great points and thanks for sharing them. However, it’s certainly possible that W&J would not have been the next team in. There’s no guarantee that a Mideast team was next on the table. It could’ve been Rockford or RPI or someone from one of the other five regions.
Bostonian — I don’t buy the flight issue. If they needed to put Millsaps in they could’ve done it by flying five West teams to Texas rather than six West teams to California.
May 14th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
what bothers me if there are aq for poo 1a, and a team takes there conference with a non aq, the pool b should go to one of the conference winning teams and not to a team 3-4 levels behind their conference winner. that is why w&J (and any other team in this situation) should get the nod over a team that had in region loses to weak and non ranked teams. Yes w&j lost to 4 oac teams, but the mideast region should not be all based on the OAC! Maybe that is the REAL problem here! I think your are right, either get rid of all automatic qualifiers or make the selections open with a public ranking system instead of all this cloark and dagger hidden stuff. I find it very odd that all of the boards had marietta out, w&j in until it came to the closed door selection time! If Marietta was so deserving with a record like their’s w&j cetainly was too!
May 14th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Looks like the consensus is that Trinity (CT) did not deserve a bid, and I totally agree. It makes the watered-down New York Regional look even worse. The committee had a great candidate to strengthen that regional without going outside of its backyard, and I’m talking about Brockport State. Consider this: Trinity played one team that is in the field of 53 (Eastern Conn.), and they lost (0-1 record). St. John Fisher played one team in the field of 53 (Ithaca) and lost three of four (1-3). Meanwhile Brockport played six teams in the NCAA tourney (Cortland, Ithaca, Fisher, Keene State, Marietta, Johns Hopkins) and went 6-5 against those teams — and four of those losses were by one run (before you say it, I know that’s not part of the criteria, but still worth mentioning). They swept Fisher at Fisher and took two of three from Cortland, which is one of the top teams in the country and by far the best team in the region. I see several postings about teams’ QOWI being in the 9.2-9.3 range and they feel slighted — Brockport’s in-region QOWI was 9.57, and their overall was even higher! Tell me someone else who was left out of the tournament that can support an argument like that! Also, the committee chose Marietta, whom Brockport defeated soundly at Marietta, and Brockport didn’t go two-and-out in their conference tournament as the Pioneers did. Brockport made the World Series in 2004, so this is not some no-name program with a flukey season. I think it is a disgrace that coaches can get away with padding their schedules with cupcake teams and still get a bid. Teams like Brockport, Tufts, and others play a great schedule and have a few extra losses to show for it, and they get penalized while others load up with patsies and get rewarded. Shameful!
May 14th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I don’t think the ranking system is particularly non-public.
Also, remember that the committee has all the numbers in front of it, and I don’t think one single person here calculated the Quality of Wins Index for Marietta or W&J. We might want to do that.
May 14th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Next time use a roulette wheel…
May 14th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Millsaps got the dirty end of the stick for sure this year. What’s the matter selection committee afraid of the SCAC? Seems like it to me!
May 14th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
fences don’t forget Babson also.
May 14th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Sorry… I meant Babson. I have no idea why I said Tufts!
May 14th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
I am not quite sure Tufts should not have been considered over Trinity either. Tufts was the top team in the NESCAC East.
May 14th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
I was right in the first place… Tufts should be in that category as well, along with Babson. I’ll shut up now!
May 14th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
I agree with basesloaded. All Conference winners especially if they win both regular season & tournament. If they don’t have an automatic bid they get a pool B bid before any other teams are considered.
May 14th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Fences i couldnt agree more with you on that one…..Brockport should be in the tourney instead of teams like trinity….they had more than a decent resume….only thing hurting them is they had a bad record at (24-15) 22-11 in the region.
May 14th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I had Marietta in. I also had Methodist in where many didn’t. I felt the committee would reward their total seasons and their aggressive scheduling and they did. I wasn’t right about all of them by any stretch, but I do feel good about being right about those two.
I feel bad for W&J. I really do. That said, they should not have been in before Marietta, they should have been in before Trinity or St. John Fisher maybe, but not Marietta. Yes, Marietta lost to Thiel on the day after playing a pivotal conference doubleheader while Thiel threw Wadowsky against them. They won, full credit to them and congratulations to Joe Schaly on what could be a breakthrough season for that program as they ramp up to an automatic bid. But that one loss doesn’t undo all that Marietta accomplished, winning the regular season championship in one of the most competitive OAC seasons I can remember. I think Heidelberg could beat a lot of teams that got in and they weren’t even in the discussion I’m sure.
Marietta beat W&J’s ace at their place in a midweek game and played a much stronger schedule overall. This doesn’t mean W&J should be out, but it does mean no one should think they deserved to be in over Marietta.
Marietta was left out for three straight years and wrapped around that are 2nd, 2nd and 1st place finishes in the nation. Tell me how that adds up to Marietta getting favorable treatment; if anything, it suggests that being Marietta hurts them as far as getting at-large bids.
To me the field would make a lot more sense if Millsaps and W&J had been in over St. John Fisher and Trinity.
May 14th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I’m sure the Central region is breathing easier that they don’t have to face Fabian Gomez.
May 14th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
It certainly suggests that being Marietta in the years of single digit Pool C bids wasn’t a positive, yep.
May 14th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
fences and dixon, its good to see someone mention babson. they did have some brutal losses (many of which came during stretch of playing 10 games in 8 days early in the season), but with their many quality wins and improved play over the course of the season, it would have been very interesting to see them in the tournament. they definitly could have done some damage.
May 14th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
One thing that is bugging me is the negativity of the fans whose teams did not get in. For the most part (with the exception of Rockford) they had a chance to play their way in through the conference tourneys. They did not get it done on the field and had to leave the choice up to someone else.
While I understand that it sometimes hurts as a fan/player/parent to not get a bid, I don’t think that it is right to point out the flaws of other teams that did get in. Every team in the nation at every level of baseball has flaws so for someone to point out those flaws is to cpmpletely overlook your own team’s flaws.
I can see both side of the arguments, but somebody is paid to make that choice and it is usually very unpopular with those left out. In addition, the advent of this very website has offered many team and fans chances to voice their opinions and may, in some cases, give false hope to teams that think they are a “lock” for the tourney.
With respect to Rockford, I feel terrible that they are not in, but the writing was on the wall by being left out of the last NCAA Regional Rankings. It should not have been a shock to be left out as many people on this board, including myself, suggested it was likely. The NCAA did not see them as a possibility going into the weekend or they would have been on their radar prior to the selections. It would have been nice to see Fabian Gomez pitch, but I doubt the Central Region teams are breathing any easier as suggested. They still have to face Carthage and IWU’s horses as well as Wash U’s 10-3 Brian Williams and 8-3 Andy Shields, as well as Webster’s 8-1 Wesley Hilliard and Luther’s top two guys who both have ERAs that are below 2.6.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
all you want is it to be fair for the kids and its not never is and never will be not when you choose not by numbers and put teams in for past accomplishments, teams change every year
May 14th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
its more like committee chairman looking to find ways to get their teams in
May 14th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
for everyone who is complaining about their team not getting in…calculate a qowi for your boys and let’s compare - all of the allegations without numbers to back them up is pointless…let’s see if millsaps or rhodes should have been in instead of methodist or any others
i think the biggest issue i have is with the inclusion of york - i know that conference established before the season that their aq would go to the 2nd place team in the event that provisional keystone won the tournament, but it just doesn’t seem right that a team that finished 2nd in their conference regular season and 2nd in their conference tournament (and most assuredly has a qowi lower than all of the non pool b and c teams chosen) is in the field
May 14th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Trinity’s QOWI is 9.2….I’d be shocked if there are no teams left out with QOWI’s better than that.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
I am an Austin College baseball parent who agrees with the idea that both Millsaps and Rhodes are very good and classy kids. My son mentioned multiple times how the Millsaps kids were polite, talked no trash, and congratulated them on their conference victory. Same with the Rhodes players. The problem is however, that Millsaps lost 4 of 6 to Austin this year including a split at Millsaps … this (Austin) is the same team that has lost by 15+ runs to the likes of UTD and McMurray this year. Believe me, I was there, it was UGLY. So, I think losing to Austin was a big problem for both schools, especially Millsaps. Both of these schools have exceptionally talented baseball players and honestly, would probably have went a ways in the regionals. Can Austin? Who knows, maybe they will shock some more people out at Chapman this week. Best of luck to all this week.
May 14th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
WJ
its simple, the committee had Wooster hosting regardless of tourney play, although I am sure everyone thought they would be a AQ lock, but due to some lackluster play they jammed their toes. They had WJ in as the last team if and only if they swept their conference, a loss to thiel cost them (even though they eventually won). If they had been impressive (and swept the tourney), they would be in over Marietta. This isnt about a “lack of respect” or “Big Names.” If it was Milsaps would be in. But lets put this to rest. WJ didnt “get screwed,” they knew when they scheduled Marietta that it was a must win. This comes down to region wins, and I would suggest next year schedule the likes of Wooster, Otterbein, Ohio Wes., Denison, even BW (as they have before) because that is what it comes down to. If you beat the Wisconsin powerhouses, thats great, but it doesnt mean a thing when it comes time for pool C’s and B’s. BTW, if this were “the 2000’s” WJ and Mariette wouldnt even sniff the tourney (expansion), so dont hate on the system as it has given a plethora of teams oppurtunity. All that being said, I look for WJ to finally get a shot next year, as they will now get an AQ for the NCAA’s. I wish they would have gotten in, but it is what it is. Move on to the future… i look for remenowski to prove that he is the best pitcher in the tourney and carry his team to the World series.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
ramapo qowi is 9.56
May 14th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
does anyone know which region or regions will be drug tested?
May 14th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
You mean Villa Julie, narch.
May 14th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Thanks Big Poppa for the kind words. It was a difficult evening moving the kids out of their dorms. However to comment on the pitching in the Central Region, Fabian Gomez had one tough outing at Marian Due to a ” cow pasture “type field. We never saw so many balls take different directions on our fielders. Take that game out of the equation, his era is below 1 for the rest of the season. He was national pitcher of the week twice & honorable mention once this season. Believe me, everyone especially IWU are glad he’s gone. They saw him for 6 innings and scored 0 eraned runs. It will be entertaining but not the same.
May 14th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
And they are mourning they won’t get to face Ken Krull and Bobby Findlay, as well.
Odd that Big Poppa mentions TWO pitchers for each of the teams in that regional (except the weak SLIAC’s champ) but Rockford has just one to hang a hat on.
May 15th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Baseballcrazy: I come up with an even higher QOWI: 9.69.
However, I also see 0-5 against Mid-Atlantic regionally ranked teams. That has to mean something.
May 15th, 2007 at 12:32 am
I’m kinda confused as to why rockford didnt get in the regionals and augie did? i mean come on augie didnt win there conference nor did they win the conference tourney.. and if im not mistaken rockford took care of them in easy fashion..its all bush league to me when you got the head coach on the selection committee..how does that work? of course he is gonna say his team even though they might have a couple more wins then rockford but they still had the same loses…i think rockford got screwed in this because they would of had a good shot in winning the regionals…none of those teams would of touched Fabian gomez..pretty sure IWU didnt…rockford deserves to be in it..not augie..enough said
May 15th, 2007 at 1:43 am
“Still, their being there is a horrible, cruel joke on many teams that have far better resumes and coaches with farmore integrity than Decker.”
I know this was written hours ago and likely in the heat of the moment, but I couldn’t let it pass without comment. Bill Decker is one of the classiest coaches I’ve ever met in any sport and his integrity extends beyond anything you could read through a baseball system.
Did Trinity play the system here? Maybe. Did they deserve to miss the tournament? Maybe. I was surprised they got in, though I really didn’t follow this well enough to know.
But don’t question Decker’s as a man unless you have real reason to do so. And I doubt you do.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:45 am
Stosh, fences, and dixon,
It is great to hear people talking about Babson, FINALLY.
I think it is completely ridiculous that Babson did not get a bid. The fact that TRINITY got the pool C bid over Babson is insane. First off, Trinity schedules CUPCAKE teams in order to boost their overall and in-region record. Yes, i know they have a QOWI of 9.2, but if you win all of those weak games, which isn’t very impressive, your QOWI will definitely rise. Clearly what Trinity does is schedule these weak teams, win, and develop a great record that catches the comitee’s eye. They overlook teams like Babson who have a 25-14 record, but QUALITY wins over Wheaton, EConn, Tufts, Southern Maine, Amherst and Suffolk. Not to mention they also beat Trinity. As far as their high loss total (14), three, yes, three were to Wheaton, one to Curry, one to Keene St, one to Tufts, and one to Trinity. That’s 6 of Babson’s 14 losses coming to teams who were selected into the tournament. Trinity played 1, yes ONE game vs a tournament team this season. For the record, they lost that game 14-3 to EConn(who Babson beat). Also, Babson finished 2nd to Wheaton in their conferance tournament, losing both to Wheaton, while Trinity couldn’t even qualify for theirs. Babson played 13 games vs regionally ranked opponents this year going 6-7, while Trinity only played 6, less than half that of Babson, and they went 2-4 in these competitions.
For all of these reasons, Babson should have earned that pool C bid over Trinity. Furthermore, it is a disgrace that Babson isn’t even mentioned in talks of teams who were “left out” of the field. Is everyone forgetting that Babson was ranked 8th in New England in the last poll before the selection??? Bottom line, they got hosed, and I would have rather seen Tufts get the bid over Trinity also. Someone please reply with thoughts on all of this. Ralph?
May 15th, 2007 at 5:51 am
Alum - I think that was the point being made, that Rockford ended up being a burst bubble team (whichever side of that discussion your on) but that if they had made the tourney they are capable of upseting any one in the country when they have Gomez pitching. Have you seen him pitch? I don’t think the point was made that anyone was going to be fearing the rest of thier staff
May 15th, 2007 at 8:42 am
B2islegit:
I think nobody was seriously talking about Babson because we know how the system worked. They were ranked behind Trinity (Conn.) when the week started and nothing particularly changed. Since most people thought Trinity wasn’t getting in, there wasn’t going to be any hope for Babson. When selecting at-large teams, they consider teams in order of regional ranking. If Trinity didn’t get in, then Babson never would’ve even gotten to the table.
May 15th, 2007 at 9:55 am
to admin or Ralph or whoever can answer this best:
I am just wondering what some of the deciding factors to getting in the tourney are. For a team like Trinity who has a 4 team conference playoff and did not even qualify and had a quality of win of around 9.2 vs Ramapo who you are sayng has a quality of win around 9.7 and qualified for their conference tourney. Also I think it is important to note that Ramapo finished 4th in the standing because they would have qualified for the tourney even if it was a smaller tourney field like 4 teams (like Trinity) which might have been an arguement for Trinity bc the NJAC tourney is a 6 team field. I understand that Ramapo finished poorly and was 0-5 vs regional ranked teams but one of those losses was in the playoffs. I dont think that one loss to Kean in the playoffs decided Ramapo’s fate but I wonder if they would have been better off not making the playoffs like Trinity so they would have 2 less losses to regional teams Montclair and Kean. If Trinity made thier tourney and lost 2 straight I have a hard time believing they would still be in a regionalwith 2 more regional losses. maybe Im wrong who knows. I guess my point is that it seems as if Trinity benefited from not making their conference tourney.
Also, I think the ECAC tourney may need some adjusting being that St.John Fisher used it to get into the NCAA’s and no other region even had their ECAC tourney before the selections were made.
I think their are more deserving tourney teams that got left out than Ramapo like Wash and Jeff but these numbers stood out to me so I figured I would present them and hopefully get some feedback and explanation into the NCAA selection process.
May 15th, 2007 at 10:32 am
while the selection process does have a poor odor to it, lets remind ourselves that the subjectivity apllied annually will always leave 5-10 teams out that had the body of work to qualify and compete successfully. look at mid atlantic region gettysburg and F&M..either one had a opportunity ceiling as high as 10 teams that were selected and the same can be said in any region. good luck to those who are in and much enjoyment to those who will be rooting for their team. D3 baseball is where its at!
May 15th, 2007 at 10:36 am
yea Alum - would anybody honestly care about two pitchers who both have ERA’s +4.00? If I was anyone in the Central, I would be licking my chops after Gomez was done. Don’t get me wrong, the kid had a great, great season, but the other pitchers were so far from him that yes, they would have won one game but then would have lost two in a row.
May 15th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Not being privy to the NCAA numbers, I think that reconstructing the information that we have at the time of the selection in tabular form is the best that we can do.
I will try to reconstruct those numbers over the summer.
This is the first real chance that most of us have had to attempt to follow the brackets and to predict the selection process.
I think that we need to look at Trinity CT, Ramapo, Rockford, W&J, Wartburg, etc. to see what the committee saw.
Remember, qualifying for the conference tourney is not an NCAA criterion. Losing in the conference tourney is one chance to separate the Pool C bids. (Wins over ranked teams in the conference tourney also count.)
I think that Ramapo’s only chance was Pool A.
SJF’s using the ECAC tourney to improve their status is quite in keeping with NCAA policy. The other ECAC areas need to adjust their tourneys if they wish.
May 15th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Ralph,
How could Ramapo’s only chance be by Pool A when their QOWI was considerably better than Trinity’s…9.6 vs. 9.2 is a solid difference. I understand that winning % is a big part and there are other factors, but I can’t imagine a comittee saying Trinity deserves it over Ramapo or other teams with QOWi’s in the 9.5 range.
Whatever rationale you use…Trinity’s inclusion is impossible to understand.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:02 am
“You mean Villa Julie, narch.”
yes, i do…and i can’t even use the “it was late when i was typing” excuse…thanks for pointing that out
May 15th, 2007 at 11:40 am
not worth fighting over it you will never get a straight answer the fact that arcadia moved in front of alvernis is the reason why ramapo didnt get in , the chair would want alvernia to get in so he would try to push ramapo in
May 15th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Ralph,
I’m confused by your comment about the conference tourney… not qualifying is not a criteria and qualifying is a chance to beat ranked teams. I understand what you say… but not what your trying to explain.
It looks to me as if it could benefit a team if they DON’T make their conference tournament… as if they make it and lose to a ranked team they are out? Unless they have a reputation….
Trinity didn’t make their conference tournament… they got in. And Marrietta got in and lost 2 and they are out. Neither one makes sesne to me as others seem to have had those things held against them.
As for SJF… yes they won the ECAC, but lost games to teams that they should have been compared too and get in anyway?
I agree with comments about Brockport, Ramapo, Babson & Millsaps… as well as some other. Seems like something went wrong for all of them… yet there are things that they each did that seemingly were not considered.
Bostonian seems to have it right when he says you can work out a formula with your schedule and get in with out playing any teams that are a real threat to beat you with any consistency.
Not complaining about any team that is in or out… just wondering out loud what the real numbers and process is.
OK, OK, at the risk of disappointing BIG POPPA, I am complaining that Brockport didn’t get in.
Really confusing to me.
May 15th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Mispoke on Marrietta… they get into conference tourney, lose 2 games and get in.. NOT out. Sorry to have confused you all for a moment.
May 15th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
“Rockford would have defeated any of the 6 in the region, hands down.”
This is quite the impressive statement. Totally lacking in any factual evidence, but quite the statement nonetheless. How can you be so completely positive of this? Sure, you had one great arm on the team and may have won game one in the region, but what do you do then??
Augustana and IWU both threw FRESHMAN against Rockford in non-conference games. There’s the difference. In the CCIW, you throw your best on the weekend, not against non-conference teams. For a non-conference team, beating someone from the CCIW is a feather in their cap which is why they throw their #1 (Gomez vs. IWU) and #3 (Findlay vs. Augie). Rockford didn’t have to face the Aronsons and Engels of the world, they faced freshmen.
Rockford struggled to beat North Park for gosh sake…don’t make ridiculous comments. They undermine your entire argument and underscore your ignorance about just how good these other teams really are.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I think it’s unbelievable how these regions are messed up. Cortland has a cakewalk to the CWS while Kean and TCNJ are just going to beat up on each other. Does it make sense to move teams from the same conference out of the region? I understand you don’t want a conference world series, but the whole idea is to get the best and most deserving teams into the CWS. The NCAA also should not be afraid to move teams out of their regions. The NCAA basketball tournament is the model, so why are we afraid to move an east coast team out to the west coast or vice versa? Doing this would not only make the better teams play better ball, but you would also be able to see what teams don’t deserve bids. Do you think that the at large selections really make the field better? There will always be teams that are on the same level, but when a team doesn’t establish themselves by not enough making their own conference tournament, do they deserve a bid to the national championship tournament? If the main idea is to make the tournament better, wouldn’t you put in a team that has played better competition with a higher QOWI? We have to look at it like this, would those at large teams be able to compete in a stronger D3 conference? Do those teams deserve to be selected rather than teams who play in stronger conferences, with a significantly higher QOWI, but have more losses? i.e Ramapo. The NCAA was exploited by the selections once again.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
The NCAA D-I basketball tournament has a $1 billion rights fee from CBS. How much is the Division III baseball tournament bringing in? (Hint, it’s a one-digit number, starting with Z.)
Expecting a D-I basketball bracket for any D-III sport is unrealistic.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I like the regional to feature as many schools from that region and the brackets do that very well. The South and New York have fewer teams from that region in the playoffs so they import a teams from another region.
Kean and The College of New Jersey should play in the Mid Atlantic.
In the case of NY - Cortland has been as dominate in that region as any school ever. It might look like a cake walk because of that but then again last year, the Red Dragons looked like the path was as easy and they ended up missing the Championship Round.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
I’ll throw in $20 if all of you will too… will that help?
:-))
May 15th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
im saying the basis behind it. They have rankings for each team based on quality wins and quality losses. The top team will have the last team in, but then the best #9 seed. I feel that the way these regions are set up does not give justice to competition, because the regions are lopsided. Any #4 seed from another region can compete and possibly be a 2 seed in the New York region. Is that really attaining the goal of the NCAA tournament?
May 15th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
njeezie - i’m trying to figure out exactly what you’re saying…do you want a tournament based strictly on qowi or do you want a tournament with strictly conference winners or do you want one with both?
or is it simply that you want ramapo in?
May 15th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
i’m saying that you need a tournament that spreads competition around in order to promote the basis behind the CWS, which is having the best teams playing for a national championship. You should either base a region on the winners of the region and at larges from the region, or, you should put top ranked teams in easier regions. I feel that if you restrict teams to one region, the regions will be completely lopsided, causing a New York bracket. You aren’t getting the proper selections of the better ranked teams if you keep teams to one region, because a team that doesn’t qualify in one region might give competition in another region.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
The prices for the D3 tournament are pretty reasonable only because this is not a money maker. If it was the D1 tournament you will be hard pressed to get a ticket. I tried for years to go the Omaha and no luck there.
Come to Appleton. Seats are available.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I agree with basesloaded24. I am extremely upset with the selection committee. How do you reward a team that loses 6 of their last 10 games in Marietta and leave out a team that wins their conference tournament in Wash & Jeff? Even worse yet, they gave Marietta a 4 seed!!!
May 15th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
mwunder, here is the scoop, Bobby Findlay took his regular turn in the rotation against Augustana. I’m sure they remember what happened on their field last year. Blowing a 5 run lead in the ninth to Rockford. As far as the North park game. Sean Farrell pitched 7 1/3 innings of his total of 12 1/3 innings for the season that night. Why did Bobby Findlay come in ? Because Rockford had played back to back to back doubleheaders winning 5 of 6. in a 48 hour spand. Fabian Gomez pitched only once in those games. Findlay had pitched 10 shutout innings 2 days prior. So the North Park game was being played on ” fumes”. There arn’t many teams that can play 7 games in 72 hours & have 7 different starting pitchers winning 6 of the7. Show me a team that is in the Central Region that played a schedule like that with the same results. I don’t think so. That’s what makes it frustrating for Rockford not making it. They had enough to go deep in the tournament beacause of their deep pitching staff. Fabian Gomez was just the ace. He didn’t win all 29 games. 6 of the regular starters batted over .300. too.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
You really think Rockford could have won any game that Gomez didn’t pitch in? Do you really think a team like Wash U, Carthage, Illinois Wesleyan, or even Luther, all good hitting teams would have feasted on the Findlay or Krull kid who DO NOT have plus fastball stuff and mediocre breaking balls? I’ve seen both pitch and honestly, aside from the game Gomez pitched, it would not be pretty.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
I see Augustana has seven regular starters batting over .300.
For Marietta, remember, late-season performance isn’t one of the things they measure. People should read the other comments before posting.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Dave Smith- We ALL understand that you think Rockford should have been in, but it is no longer an option. You continually point out why Rockford SHOULD be in the field, but you never addressed why they SHOULD NOT. Please look at the issue from both sides… not just through Rockford glasses.
Though it is unfortunate that the NathCon does not have an automatic bid this year, Rockford still had a shot to get in based on QOWI, which is what matters to the NCAA. Their low QOWI is what left them out of the tourney, not politics and not coaches on the committee. Each regional chairperson also takes advice and relies on information from other regional coaches on their regional committee.
I actually placed Wartburg ahead of Rockford as well. I had Rockford as the 8th best team in the Central Region. I would think that Wartburg had a bigger complaint than Rockford as they were in the final NCAA Regional Rankings(and lost only to the #1 seeded Luther Norse), Rockford was not.
Also, you are placing the majority of your argument on the basis of Fabian Gomez. We understand that he is a great pitcher and nobody has disputed that, but sometimes the best players do not get to play in the playoffs… that’s the way the game works. It is not an individual sport, it is a TEAM sport.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
there has been some complaint about millsaps - i have them calculated at 31-11 in region (.738) and 9.12 qowi (don’t trust these numbers completely, but they’ll be close) - i also have them at just 8-8 in region vs. teams above .500 in region
compare that to methodist - 24-12 in region (.667) but 9.58 qowi and 17-11 vs. teams above .500 in region
i’ll try to calculate rhodes later…maybe someone can get w&j and some of the others…then we can determine if there are legit complaints
as i see it, millsaps clearly didn’t warrant a bid, despite a gaudy overall regional record
May 15th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
This is like the BCS!! I love the controversy as it keeps people interested in small-collge baseball.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
njeezie, I am from the NY region and have seen all of the teams in that region play… some of them against some teams from other regions who are in the tournament. I think that your statement that the #4 seed from any other region could beat the #2 seed in NY is a little arrogent and can’t be substantiated. From what I’ve seen it is also not ture…
As games are played on the field, not on paper like we do here… and Ithaca is a good team and NY is a strong region (perhpas not the strongest) no matter what is said here.
Please try to keep your passion for wanting to move teams from the same conference in context… I support that idea… but not at the expense of bashing other teams who are deservedly in the tournament.
At least your team made it in… and now your questioning where they are scheduled to play!
May 15th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Dave,
You’re grasping now. That, or else you’re running out of those sour grapes to stomp on. So what if Findlay took his turn in the rotation. He still threw against freshmen. You didn’t face anyone’s #1 when you played CCIW teams. So what if 6 of the regulars batted over .300. Carthage has 10 guys who had over 70 AB’s that are hitting over .300. Augie had 6, IWU had 5, Wash U had 5, Luther had 7, and Webster had 10 guys who hit over .300 with 65 or more ABs.
As for 7 games in 72 hours…you played Wisconsin Lutheran (4-24), North Park (14-26), Marian (19-19), Aurora (17-21). Those teams were a combined 54-90 (.375 winning percentage) on the season. Good teams are supposed to win those games.
Do some research before you post the accomplishments of YOUR team. I’m sure there’s another team out there that can stick it’s chest out just a little further, especially one of the 53 that are still playing.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
B..but … mwunder … you don’t understand … they had HEART! HEART I TELL YOU!
May 15th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
what i’m saying isn’t meant to be arrogant. If teams are spread to different regions, there would be more possibilities for the NCAA to acknowledge good teams. My team did not get in, as long with teams that are better than mine. In order to create a more competitive region, teams should be brought from all over, not just from the area. If you are from a strong region, you must get a Pool A bid despite having a better record, higher QOWI, and more quality wins than teams that get at larges from not as strong regions. If teams were spread out, there would be no problems at getting the right teams in.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Njeezie, that is a better way to say it… without bashing anohter region or team. I agree with your position on this… but with D-III baseball not being a tournament that makes money, the extra travel costs of moving teams more then one region away would be hard to pay for.
Perhaps a change in regions so that the AQ’s and available spots in each region for ohters to be include would work to help with what you are saying. I.E. New England has 7 AQ conferences… and anyone who doesn’t win their conference and is deserving of a Pool B or C would need to move to NY becuase they only have 3 AZ conferences.
That isn’t fair to NY teams… but they have to be judged on the same merit as the New England teams and they play against different in region teams for the most part.
But I do support all the Pool A participants and also what your suggesting too.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
I personally like Wooster, and Wheaton. We played both teams this year, Wooster we beat one time, and lost 2 games in our conference semi-finals. I have to say they do have the pitching. I think their #1-3 don’t have a loss yet if I’m right. Wheaton in Arizona proved they had some really good players and I expect them to do well. Another team that we played in Arizona was College of New Jersey who was one of the best teams we played. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t win it either.
Thats all I have to say… hopefully next year we can be in the tournament…
May 15th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
When your playing in the time period of the Automatic bid…..your never going to have the best teams in the field to begin with….as there are always those bad conferences that receive an automatic bid.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
exactly. there are various teams that have been left out because their region is stockpiled with pool a bids; ramapo and w&j. If there were no restrictions to these regions, these teams would have a much easier chance of making it. Ramapo’s QOWI of a 9.6 should have gotten them into another region, but the NCAA’s prospective of having to place teams in their own regions only comes back to haunt deserving teams. Yeah, financially it’s tough, but it’s the only way in which i could see teams receiving justice for winning games
May 15th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Personally i would love to see the field go to 64 teams….I’m well aware of the money issue in d3 sports as well as the recent expansion they just made to the field. What is 11 more schools being added. From what it sounds like I’m really only seeing a handle of teams that are being agrued for not being in (Babson,Rockford,Wash & Jeff,Rhodes,Ramapo,Millsaps,Brockport) thats 7 teams right there
May 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
i like that idea. financially that will come back to hurt schools. The NCAA and ECAC need to evaluate when the games hould be conducted, because kids are forced to stay at their respective schools until the tournament begins. Also raises the question of should the ECAC count towards the NCAA tournament births? If so the ECAC tournaments would have to be before the NCAA tournament so that each team could equally use this as leverage.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Even if they exapnd to 64 team, which won’t happen, there will still be 5-8 teams that feel like they got slighted by the committee. Adding more does not address the issue of how to deal with bubble teams.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Njeezie:
“exactly. there are various teams that have been left out because their region is stockpiled with pool a bids; ramapo and w&j. If there were no restrictions to these regions, these teams would have a much easier chance of making it.”
This just is not true. At-large bids are selected nationally, NOT per region.
May 15th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
i disagree with you that adding teams isn’t the issue to deal with bubble teams. Theres always going to be teams that think they shouldve got in. Whether there is 53 or 83 it makes no difference. The point i was trying to make was if there was 64 teams as in D1 that it would be less likely someone deserving was left out of the field
May 15th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
mwthunder, doesn’t make much sense to mock Rockford for barely beating North Park, Augustana dropped 2 of 3 to them.
May 15th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice that!! I didn’t mention the 1 run win over Wisconsin Lutheran however…so it all washes.
Also, I wasn’t mocking Rockford. I was merely pointing out a fact.
The fact of the matter is that Rockford won their conference and their tourney and they should have been considered for a “B” slot, but didn’t get one. Teams get snubbed every year. Dave makes absolutely no supportable case for them being in the tourney other than they have a great #1 (as do the other 6 teams) and that they have 6 regulars hitting over .300 (so do the other 6).
May 15th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
mw - I see where your coming from, I just laughed when I read the North Park comment as I recalled Augie struggling with them. I think Rockford does have a supportable case based upon thier record, but you are correct it doesn’t make sense to say they should be in due to the performance of some of thier players, it is team performance that matters.
May 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
admin, you said “For Marietta, remember, late-season performance isn’t one of the things they measure.” If this is the case then i cant see why a team like Ramapo who had a good record and QOWI but struggled late in the season did not get in. According to someone who has knowledge of the NCAA meeting, when Ramapo came up on the board, the committee was turned off by the fact that Ramapo finished so weak. I dont know, I think this always going to be an imperfect system because the fact is that this is not D1 basketball where the atlarge bids are seen by the committee throughout the year on tv. My bet is that the people on the D3 baseball committee have never seen most of the teams that they select for atlarge bids and therefore can only go by the numbers which as always, never tell the whole story.
May 15th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
how are there more at large bids in one region than the other? I’m trying to understand how the mid-atlantic has 1 at large bid yet other regions have 2 or 3
May 15th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
All of the comments have valid points & it’s great to get them out, In Rockford’s case for now it will make great locker room material. There is no right or wrong answers since the decisions made are out of our hands. There will be no ” perfect” system of selection.
May 15th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
the D3 baseball committee has created a precedent that has to be addressed by the NCAA. How can a team benefit from not making a conference tournament? This precedent will allow teams which qualify for their tournament to decline to participate if they feel they are a strong Pool C team. Is this what baseball is? I always believed you played it on the field not at a desk with a calculator. As someone who is very familiar with the workings of D3 national baseball committee, I am embarrassed by the commitee’s selection of trinity
May 15th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
also, who would you consider the top conferences in the nation, and how many teams represent them?
May 15th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
bebaseball: The SCIAC doesn’t have a conference tournament either. Those teams have an unnatural benefit by your definition, right? I’d agree with that — I just don’t think it’s all that different and the NCAA tolerates those kinds of conferences getting at-large bids. And I doubt that conferences will allow teams that qualify for their conference tournaments to decline to participate. I’m not sure that kind of hyperbolic rhetoric helps.
Perhaps the NESCAC should look at its conference tournament and which games count in its standings before it points the fingers at the committee — if you’re in a position to affect that change you should consider working toward it. If your team had to take two losses you should make sure all of the contenders in your league do.
… unfortunately, though, you’re right. Selections are played in a calculator. But I’m not sure that’s worse than the ‘old boys network’ method that existed pre-Pools.
question15: Nobody at Ramapo had direct access to the national selection call. Your region was represented on that call by the Alvernia AD, the regional and national chair. Dunno who you think had knowledge of the meeting but nobody at Ramapo had direct access to either the national or regional call.
Third-hand “information” from an anonymous poster’s anonymous source shouldn’t sway too many people.
May 15th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
I am not sure if I was one of four teams that I would reject a conference tournament bid. At that point four teams are the only ones playing for a bid so if everyone is equal, your chance at getting a bid is 25%.
I would hope that I was in Wooster’s spot — where a number 1 seed is already sewed up and winning or losing the conference did not matter.
May 15th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Several good points have been made in the discussion…
Pool B and Pool C bids are allocated nationally and are not rationed by/allocated to the region.
The number of regionally ranked teams in a region is determined by dividing the number of teams in the region that have declared for the NCAA playoffs by 6.5. The very populous New England and Mid-Atlantic regions have no advantage over the Midwest and West Regions mathematically. Practically speaking is another debate about re-aligning the regions that has not been solved on the D3hoops,com message boards over the last 3 seasons.
The move to the Pool system has increased the autonomy of the conferences (and the presidents of the member instituions) to govern themselves. As for post-season tourneys, as we get some experience with this, we will see that an in-region percentage below some number (e.g., .700) makes a Pool C chance less than one twenty. The post-season tourney keeps teams mentally focused towards the end of the season. Imagine catching a possible contender at the beginning of the season and then seeing your opponent playing that team when they have been mathematically eliminiated. Don’t you want that team to be as tough on your foe as they were for you just 4 weeks earlier?
May 15th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Hi, I just finished reading all of the posts and people have some interesting things to say.
Personally, I favor a team that has the integrity or how its put in major league 2 “marbles” to schedule tough competition. Teams like Trinity or SJF who schedule softies to pad the coaches win-loss records and the kids’ stats are a disgrace, challenge yourselves. Another team that year in and year out does that is Mary Washington, and it definately backfired on them this year. At one point SJF’s pitching staff was ranked number one in the nation in ERA, I can see how that happened when they were playing schools that would lose to JV high school teams.
In regards to the strength of regions, the New York, other than Cortland can be seen as soft. Ithaca I feels gets in year after year due to their programs history. On the other hand, the south region is very strong and looking at the field, where my team played 5 of the teams, I would have to say Emory is my favorite to win it all. They play great baseball and are well coached, and it helps to have two of the best pitchers in the country (Glushon and Ganzer).
Lastly, it should be interesting to see how the field plays out and am excited to see what happens. Good luck to all.
May 15th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
NESCAC’s tournament is not “screwy”. The top 2 teams from each division of 5 make it and play a double elim. tourney. This happens in other conferences as well. The issue I have as a NESCAC fan is that each team should play each other twice instead of just playing 4 teams in their division 3 times. It would require a little more travel and 4 games on the weekends instead of 3, but the best 4 teams would be a lot easier to determine for the playoffs….
May 15th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
ok - i’ve answered those who were saying millsaps should have rec’d a bid…now rhodes - rhodes clearly had some nice wins against wash u, emory, methodist and millsaps…in fact, they were 4-2 against those +.667 teams but…
i have them calculated at 27-10 in region (.730) and 9.27 qowi - i also have them at just 9-8 in region vs. teams above .500 in region (despite being 4-2 vs. +.667 teams…which means they were 5-6 vs. +.500 teams) - i think they simply had too many games (10) vs. teams under .333, which kills qowi
majorfan/baseballfla - do these comparisons help you understand why the “overrated” methodist team is in and millsaps and rhodes are out? it’s a matter of playing consistently well against strong teams…millsaps and rhodes simply didn’t play enough good teams…they played reasonably well when they did (especially rhodes), but they just didn’t play enough games vs. good teams - methodist had more WINS against +.500 teams than millsaps and rhodes had games played against +.500 teams - if those teams beefed up their schedules, they’d probably still be playing
having said that, i think both teams are outstanding, and some within the mu program have said that rhodes was the best team we played all year (this was prior to the salisbury trip)
and bank, i’ve got to agree with you - mary wash is an outstanding program…always tough and always willing to play anyone and everyone
May 15th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
bank,
There someone goes again, stating that the New York Region is soft… except for Cortland and that Ithaca got into the tournament because of reputatoin. Both of those are just not the case. In every region there are a handful of strong teams and more then half of the teams are on the weaker side… but every region has its top dogs who can play with anyone.
I’ve seen all these NY teams play amongst themselves and versus some teams from other regions. There is a group of around 6-8 that are very competative with each other… With Cortland being the cream of the crop. They are there, because there are only a handful of teams in the region that don’t melt down when they play them… and they don’t lose games that they should win. A team being able to play with them comes from playing them regularly (to realize that they put their pants on just like you do) and also from playing strong teams outside the region when the opportunity presents itself.
It is true that some of the NY teams don’t play strong schedules out of the region (as it is in each region)… but that can’t be said for Ithaca and Brockport. And with most of the strong teams in the region they do schedule each other… So they don’t duck that either.
What needs to happen to help NY’s reputation is that more teams then Cortland, Ithaca and Brockport need to seek out the top teams outside the region and play them when the opportunity presents itself. When that happens and they start to beat teams… then the NY region will be viewed as a stong one.
May 15th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
We all tend to see our region, conference or general locaton as strong… and rightfully so as those are the teams we see and talk about all the time.
this committee had to look at everyone… from everywhere!
May 15th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
As someone who follows New York baseball very closely, I have to comment on bank’s referring to the New York region as “soft.” I would agree to an extent, especially when you look at this year’s regional. But the SUNYAC conference can compare to any DIII conference in the country (minus the NJAC), and anyone who has faced Cortland, Brockport, Oneonta, and Plattsburgh in recent years will agree. All of those teams routinely win 25+ games per year, but they beat each other up in the regular season and conference tournament and somehow another team from the region — a Pool B team with no conference tourney who can manipulate their pitching matchups (Ithaca/St. John Fisher) and/or Pool C team with a padded schedule (RPI) — steals their bid. I’m willing to bet other regions are affected in the same way.
Basically, if anyone from the New York region ever gets a Pool C bid, it should automatically be the next-best team from the SUNYAC, hands down. The Liberty League is getting weaker every year, as evidenced by RPI’s poor showing in the conference tournament the last few years, which has led to average teams like St. Lawrence and Skidmore getting the AQ. Those teams would not make the SUNYAC conference tournament (I’m not sure that RPI would either), and that hurts the strength of the New York regional every year. Combine that with the Skyline Conference winner, which is almost always terrible (when is the last time they had a team in the World Series?), with one or two crappy Pool A teams from New England and/or Pennsylvania, and what you have is Cortland, Ithaca, and a Pool C team from New England (East Conn last year, Trinity before that) battling it out for the regional title. The next best team in the region (Brockport or Oneonta) is sitting at home, and it honestly makes New York look bad… a lot worse than it should.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
So the New York Region Debate continues.. My personal take, being very familiar with all the teams is that I can see how Brockport not getting in is kinda a shame. However, they chose not to enter ECAC’s, St John Fisher did, and ultimately won it. Had Brockport won ECAC’s they would have gotten in hands down. I could have seen RPI, Brockport, or Oneonta all getting in to the New York Region over Fisher and/or Trinity. I do think Fisher schedules some cupcakes. However, you have to keep in mind what goes on in some of the NY conferences. With the Liberty League playing 4 games against every conference foe, it does not leave many other teams to play against.. This causes the Empire 8 to have to do the same thing. And the SUNYAC is big enough as it is. Therefore, some teams are forced to play against a lot of weak teams in the region. The E8 teams do have the luxury of matching their best pitching against other teams mid-week who can’t throw their top 4 because their battling for a conference tournament bid/title. As for Mr. Fences opinion of the mighty SUNYAC compared to the other New York Conferences.. The same four teams make the SUNYAC tournament every year.. So yes mabe the top 4 teams are very solid, however, the rest of the conference is weak every year. And for your information Plattsburgh lost all of its games to LL competition (Skidmore, St Lawrence, RPI). And Oneonta beat Union (who was atrocious this year). So your top 4 SUNYAC teams had 4 games scheduled against LL competition and went 1 - 3 agaisnt them. It seems your opinion would be to just take the best SUNYAC teams and forget about the Skyline, Liberty League, etc. from New York. I completely disagree. I dont think the Liberty League is weaker every year. Wasnt RPI in the World Series not too long ago if I remember correctly. Maybe this year and last year it has been down although they did get two teams in last year and I think both teams held their own. 2 Years ago the Liberty League had 4 20 game winners. They probably would have had 5 but some of the teams play so far up north they can’t get all their games in. I think all four of those teams coulda held their own and won games against any SUNYAC team. Infact I’d take their top 5 times that year and say they were all solid squads. So two years ago I dont think RPI lost to “average” squads like Skidmore and St Lawrence. I believe both those teams won multiple games in their respective regional appearances. The fact is the SUNYAC schools gets a plethera of more players because it’s incredibly cheap to go there and easier to get in. Bottom line is when you need an SAT score of 600 and it costs pennies to go there, it’s no wonder the top 4 SUNYAC squads have 40 guys on their roster are able to beat up on the rest of their conference where it doesnt seem there is much emphasis on the baseball programs. Paying 10k a year vs. 40k a year for an education does tend to cause that. Altho we all know some schools throw financial aid to their athletes but we won’t go there right now. As for Radley’s opinion that the New York teams need to play some stronger teams outside the region, it’s pretty difficult to do when your confernece plays 4 games against each team (such as the E8 and LL). When half or more than half of your games are conference games, and you play another 8 or so down south, it’s tough to find the time to travel to another region to play top teams from there. And your southern schedule is heavily dictated by where you go, where other teams go, and when your spriing break is. At the end of the day I can see how Fence’s opinion of the SUNYAC holds some water because those schools can get a lot more players to go to them, thus making them have some very solid squads, but when Plattsburgh and Brockport chose not to enter ECAC’s it gave Fisher the perfect opportunity to prove they can play and ultimately it looks like that got them in. It just doesn’t seem to make sense that we should throw out all the “other” conferences because the SUNYAC is so great. We wouldnt even be having this debate if the field wasn’t expanded last year anyways which I think was pretty dumb. If you’re good enough to go to NCAA’s you should be good enough to win your conference. These 7 team regionals where the 1 Seed gets to play a team that has already played a game makes no sense. Talk about making it as easy as possible for a 1 seed to advance. Atleast put every teams rotation on a level playing field. At the end of the day if you have the chance to keep playing games (like ECAC’s) to prove your worthiness of a bid, you should do it. Fact is, Fisher knocked off Oneonta in ECAC’s. Brockport and Plattsburgh didnt bother to show up. I cant feel bad for those teams in that case. And the LL and Skyline Conference’s deserve to have their automatic bid just like any other conference does. Maybe next year some of those SUNYAC teams will learn that they should have chosen to go to ECAC’s and then they would have two teams in the regional if they won it. Then New York wouldn’t “look bad”. Shame on them, not the rest of the region.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Well stated radley and fences……everyone is always trying to consider one region being weaker than other when they really don’t have the right to seeing as they may have never even seen any of the teams play. Im well aware the NY region isn’t the strongest region, and it may be one of the weaker ones. I think sometimes the region gets a bad rap just for the fact that it has only 3 automatic bid conferences and 2 of 3 conferences are below par when it comes to the national level. I think the SUNYAC conference is highly underated…..teams like Brockport,Oneonta,Plattsburgh sometimes dont get the respect on the national level. Looking at the championship guide on the d3baseball front page…..i noticed many teams in each of the regions didn’t have a great deal of sucesss against other teams in the field of 53 with the exception of a few. A team like Brockport goes out and goes 6-5 against teams in the tourney, but an overall record at 24-15 most likely keeps them out of the field. Then you got a team like fisher who plays an easy schedule and racks up points to make there QOWI look great. No disrecpt to John Jay but if you look at there games outside the CUNYAC they were hammered by anyone good and then Fisher beating them on a Neutral site gave them 15 pts for that win. Then you wonder why the NY regional is weak when Fisher can build up an In-region QOWI over 10 playing basically no one.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am
That’s the best part about the WIAC is that anyone from top to bottom can play with anyone in the country. It’s comical reading all these without any talk of baseball in the true north. Year in and year out they continuously get a later start than all other teams around the country and do nothing but beat each other up throughout the conference season without garnering any recognition. Often times they get off to slow starts because they play teams on a spring trip that have played 10 or so games before they have had the chance to take a ground ball off real dirt, catch a flyball from the spring sky, or hit a pearl coming from an outdoor batters eye. I’m sick and tired of hearing about how teams got screwed out of an NCAA appearance when there is 5 or 6 teams in the WIAC, let alone the region that could compete with any team in the country. It’s a travesty that baseball in the north continues to produce great teams and great players but receives the lack of respect it truly deserves because the competition of the leagues are so great.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:05 am
from what iv been told each conference (or atleast the NJAC as far as I know) has a representative that presents its teams to the committee. I know these representatives are not part of the meeting but from what I understand they do have some knowledge of what goes on in the meeting.
I think it is a logical point that teams that finish strong will be looked upon favorably by the committee and teams that dont wont. I think this idea that it is all by the numbers is not quite accurate because the numbers indicate that the teams selected by the committee did not all have the best numbers.
If making the conference tourney is not a criteria then maybe the committee should not consider any tourney games from any team except the winnner getting the automatic bid. Idk how fair it is that a team in the NJAC can come in second in the conference tourney and still win 4 extra games (kean) against quality NJAC playoff teams and improve their QOWI dramatically but a team in another conference where the field is only 4 teams would not have the same chance to win as many games. I am using this just as an example, I realize that Kean probably would have made the tourney even if they went two and out in the NJAC’s.
I think another intersting point that was made was the idea of shipping teams out to other regoins. I think their are two basic arguments to this. the first being, leave each team in its own region and the winner goes to the world series. this argument will give in the end 8 true “regional champs” with the best 8 teams, one from each region going to the world series. The other argument is sending teams away from their region. This idea will not give 8 true region champs but will do a better job at getting the best 8 teams in the country into the world series. as alot of you know this argument can be shown with last years field when 3 njac teams were the last three teams standing in the Mid atlantic and Rowan the 4th team to get in and the 4th best team from the conference was shipped South and was one game from going to the WS. I dont think I would have much argument to the idea that if njac schools were not placed in the same region, then the likelyhood of more than one njac team goin to the WS would be very realistic. I understand the NCAA wanting a national field and not an NJAC tourney in the WS but in some year like 2006, I think that 2 or 3 njac teams (montclair, kean, tcnj) could have been among the best 8 teams in the country but could not show this being that they were all in the same region.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:14 am
I agree Question15…..you make a great point about the 2006 NJAC all those teams couldve been playin in the WS.
Maierse i would hope the WIAC would be solid from top to bottom…..it doesntt hurt when there isnt D1 baseball at Wisconsin…..there have been some great ballplayers in that state playing D3 baseball when many of them had no business doing so. No one here is arguing that because teams are from NY that didnt they didnt get a far shake cause they started later that teams, just the fact why certain teams in the region got in over one another
May 16th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Points of clarification:
Rhodes versus Wash StL is not an in-region game in baseball by any criteria. (It is greater than 200 miles. They are in different conferences, different evaluation regions and they are not in the same administrative region.)
Finishing strong or “last ten games” is not a critierion in D3 baseball.
The Championship Committee for all D3 sports has deemed that post-season play (ECAC or a conference’s post season tourney) counts in the evaluation of a team for playoff bids, if a team chooses to play in a post-season tourney.
The brackets are broken down to accommodate the 53 teams that are selected for the tourney into 8 “regional” tourneys. In fact the “regionals” are named by the location of the tourney. e.g., Boyertown, and not a geographical region, e.g., Mid-Atlantic The main practical factor in bracketing teams is who can be sent where by bus to avoid being flown. Since Pool C bids are not rationed/allocated to a particular region, the New England Region will always be “too big”. We have dealt with this in basketball and no division of New England that was proposed was an improvement or even logical.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:38 am
maierse,
it shouldn’t come as much of a shock that WIAC teams are always tough in most sports. The fact that they don’t win more national titles is actually hard to believe. Oshkosh has an enrollment of more than 12,000, LaCrosse has over 8,000 kids, and Whitewater has 9,000 plus, while schools like Carthage (2500) and Rockford (900) are much smaller. How can these schools NOT put competitive teams on the fields??
May 16th, 2007 at 1:32 am
An excellent and well-thought out argument by BaseB13. However it has some big holes… #1 of which is that Brockport did not “choose” to skip ECACs, but rather if it had participated it would have been ineligible for NCAAs. NCAA rules state that a team can participate in one end-of-season tournament that does not count toward your maximum of 40 games played in the regular season. Brockport, who had played 36 regular-season games (3 were cancelled in the last week due to other teams’ conference make-ups), used up that one tournament by going to SUNYACs. In a four-team double elimination tournament, like ECACs this year, a team would have needed to have room for five games in case they had to come through the losers bracket. Brockport could have gambled and gone to ECACs, hoping they would win in three or four games, but if they lost one of their first two games they would have been ineligible for consideration for NCAAs. Ethically speaking, that would not have been an option, because they would have had to quit after their 40th game, thus ruining the tournament for the other participants. The worst part is that the ECAC came out with this new format (it had previously been four-team, single elimination, so teams needed to leave just two open games) in the middle of the season, so a team like Brockport would have had to cancel scheduled games in advance just to make room for it. Fisher, on the other hand, does not have a conference tournament like I mentioned earlier, so they could count that as their season-ending tournament and go over the 40-game max without penalty. Same with RIT. Oneonta and Oswego, on the other hand, didn’t play enough regular season games to be hurt by the rule. So basically Brockport got punished for doing everything it could to play all of its regular season games. So you should know all the facts before you start calling out Brockport, because it’s not that they didn’t “bother to show up” — they didn’t have a choice, so I don’t think it’s “shame on them.” I’m sure they are sick about not being able to compete at ECACs, because they probably feel they had a great chance to win and help their cause for a bid.
Also you failed to mention that Brockport played and crushed two Liberty League teams this year (Rochester and Vassar). Granted Vassar is bad but Rochester finished second or third in the LL I believe. RPI went to the World Series in 2003 and I thought they were outstanding then, but they and the rest of the league has gradually gone downhill since then. You don’t think so? RPI is certainly not as strong as they were. You mentioned Union being atrocious… how about Clarkson? They have a good program and are perenially one of the best teams in that league, but this year they won ONE game outside the league this year. Still they managed to be in the hunt for the fourth playoff spot (battling with Skidmore, who ultimately won the conference) until the last weekend of the season. You say that that the Liberty League reps “held their own” by winning some games at regionals recently? Tell me who they’ve beaten… Endicott? Messiah? Pitt-Bradford? The Skyline rep? Each other? The fact that the LL wins those games only proves my point… the regional is awful enough that even teams from that league come out looking good. Until the Liberty League beats Cortland and/or Ithaca in a regional then you can’t sell me on that point. Maybe it will happen this year, but the odds aren’t good. I would like to see the Liberty League teams play Cortland in a doubleheader in the regular season and see how that turns out. Then play Oswego (their travel partner), who saved their aces because they played Fredonia (Brockport’s travel partner) the next day and see how that goes. It’s a little different than seeing Vassar’s, Union’s, Clarkson’s, Skidmore’s, Rochester’s, etc., #’s 3 & 4 on Sunday as the LL conference schedule goes. Then you have to face Cortland at least twice in the conference tournament to try to get to regionals. Your talking an extra four losses a year for every LL team… even though Brockport beats Cortland every year for the last five years! But still they don’t get a shot.
Other weak argument — I’m assuming you’re talking about Cortland when you speak of 600 SAT scores and 40-man rosters. Maybe even some of the other teams. Brockport has 27 on their roster, with a travel squad of 22, and their standards are much higher than some of their fellow conference foes (and getting higher every year). Of course they are not as high as those in the Liberty League, and tuition cost is much less, but how in the world does that have any relevance? We are talking about the strength of baseball programs and their conferences here… you are making excuses. Do you think average SAT scores, class rank, tuition costs, number of players on the honor roll, etc., should be factored into a team’s QOWI and help them get an at-large bid? If not, then leave it out of the conversation because there is no place for it. Besides, there are plenty of excellent athletes out there that will not consider attending a state school because they have outstanding grades, are financially well-off, or feel that they are “above the state system.” Teams such as Rochester, Ithaca, Clarkson, Union, and others, can go outside the state to recruit, while SUNYAC teams are confined to New York state for the most part. There are pros and cons to every school and every league, so don’t make excuses for one conference being weaker than another, because it doesn’t fly. And more importantly, it doesn’t carry any weight in this conversation.
I’m not saying that the LL & Skyline shouldn’t have their automatic bid, because they do of course deserve it. We shouldn’t “throw them out” as you put it — I root for them to do well to represent the region. But they don’t deserve anyone else getting in the field, just as the Empire Eight certainly doesn’t deserve two in there this year. “If you’re good enough to go to NCAA’s you should be good enough to win your conference.” — that is pretty easy to say when Cortland isn’t in your conference.
May 16th, 2007 at 2:47 am
Just wanted to make a comment about regions and conferences. First off, any New York region fans complaining about how Trinity takes up a bid and prevents worthy New York teams from getting in, should consider this. Last year EConn came into that tournament, as a pool A team, not pool C, and won it. And this year, as weak as Trinity is, and as they may be considered not worthy of NCAAs, they will definitely do damage in this region. Other than Cortland, it seems to be a joke. Ithaca is the most overrated team in the country, as are plenty of these Pool B teams who are able to schedule games to comply with favorable pitching match-ups, and also lacking a conferance tournament.
As we head into regional play tomorrow, I see EConn or Wheaton winning New England for sure, and definitely doing damage in the World Series once they get there. Their deep pitching, and D1-like line-ups make them national powerhouses, and it will be interesting to see them battle in Harwich. On that note, anyone know where we can watch these games online, specifically the New England region games? Thanks.
May 16th, 2007 at 8:01 am
B2,
All games from New England regions will be webcast on d3cast.com.
May 16th, 2007 at 8:32 am
ralph - thanks for the clarification on rhodes v. wash u…now i’ve gotta figure out which game was regional that i DIDN’T count for them (and that will certainly lower rhodes’ qowi…further illustrating the fact that it was numbers and results which caused rhodes to be left out, not politics)
May 16th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Good morning, Narch.
Keeping the regions straight is tough. Rhodes and WashStL are in the South Region for football.
The good news for us D3baseball.com fans is how much activity that we have gotten in the last week and the quality of the blogging. The bloggers who have joined this board have “gotten up to speed” very quickly about the issues that face our teams and conferences in D3. Tell you friends in the next 2 weeks as the playoffs get into full mode. These boards and this site are enjoyable and a great source of thought and information. We have a lot of great D3baseball fans who have found a home here.
May 16th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Baseballfla in a previous post is upset because he feels Salisbury should not be considered a true South Region Team. I guess playing Virginia Wes, Christopher Newport, Methodist, NC Wes, Mary Wash and Shenandoah on a yea